I disagree with you on pretty much everything :), but vehemnetly disagree with the last statement you've made. Abstinence education has no harm in of itself, as long as it is paired with all of the other corresponding information about how to protect oneself during the sex act. Abstinence is just one way to protect yourself from pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. And more teens and kids are going to be having sex than any of us adults are going to be comfortable with - we have to arm them with the proper information and hope they are responsible enough to make the right choices.

On a national level, GWB's attempt at abstinence education hasn't been so successful, unless you ask the right people.
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/example_abstinence.htm

And finally, I have nothing against the church as a social, community-building institution. I used to be a church goer and many of my family and friends still are. And individually, I believe that people can be good Christians. But not collectively as a law-making institution. The reason I refer to the Life Chain as a political act is simply that if one were to want to change a law, as anti-abortion activists aim to do, one would appeal to lawmakers. Gathering, instead, in the name of God and calling it a life chain instead of a protest, which is what it blatantly is, is spin. Furthermore, passively attempting to change the publics' minds by silently holding signs instead of appealing to individuals who have direct influence over the quentioned laws is underhanded as well.

In this way, the church intends to subvert the usual lawmaking practice by rewriting the process and polarizing the argument further.

And besides, if prayer had worked by now, God would have lit down on Washington D.C. and changed the laws for Himself.

In addition, PAS does not exist, in that it is not a medically recognized term or condition in any medically legitimate way, unless you publish anti-abortion material, in which case you can continue to spin the issue by saying that real doctors just don't know where to put it in the DSM-IV yet.

One, I noticed regarding the last statement that you did not comment regarding education on taking responsibility for ones actions. I do agree with you that the statistics on the effects of promoting abstinence definitely depends on who is reporting.

Like this site.
http://www.vahealth.org/abstinence/dataaei.htm

I guess there must be some merit to educating on abstinence since there are teens not having sex, pregnancies and abortions.

Regarding Life Chain you are right it is a direct appeal to individuals to change their minds and hearts regarding abortion. Abortions existed before it was legalized. Laws can not protect us from ourselves or change minds and hearts; if that was the case we would not have crime.

You are looking at the big picture, that the only victory is the laws of the land being changed. If one person turns away from murdering their unborn child by the prayers and stance of the collective group, that is a victory.

As for prayer changing things, who can say it already hasn’t happened.

Many women do suffer symptoms of PTSD after abortion, just because it does not have its own code in the DSM does not mean it does not exist. PTSD was not even included in the DSM before 1980, does that mean it did not exist? PTSD is based on subjective material, many other diagnoses are given to individuals who are manifesting symptoms of PTSD if they are unwilling or unable to recall the traumatic event.

Guilt is a very real feeling that can manifest itself in many ways. How many women readily admit to having an abortion? To being raped? Actually we will never know. If symptoms are manifesting and the person does not own up to the act does it negate its existence? I think not.

Many studies suggest that PAS is an inflammatory and politicized way of referring to the stress that a woman has when she has experienced an unplanned pregnancy.

Having had an unplanned pregnancy, I tend to agree with that notion. In addition, the "relief" that you refer to after a woman has had an abortion has little to do with being an immoral murderer, and more to do with having reached a solution to a stressful situation.

---

I'm sorry we are so polarized about this topic. I often wish that the two sides could come together and reach some sort of solution. The problems is that we aren't even discussing the same material.

Your cite tends to cite religious convictions as the reason for your stance, and mine cites civil rights as the reason for our stance. Neither is any less valid than the other, but as long as I'm speaking the language of women's rights and you're speaking the language of opposing murder, neither side can agree. I think it's a shame that we can't come together, pool our resources, and get to the task of teaching age-appropriate measures to avoid sex before one is ready, and how to protect oneself while sexually active without teaching abstinence alone. I sincerely believe that kids will not be able to make good decisions about their bodies unless they have the whole gamut of information.

There's a website called Scarleteen that tries to offer straightforward answers to questions that teens have about their sexualities. It is, of course, a liberal site, but some of the ignorance the kids have appalls me! Glance through the forums and look for questions on the various questions kids have on how one can become pregnant - sharing a hot tub? oral sex? Gah!

I went to see Joseph Scheidler (whom I detest) speak earlier this year, and after his lecture, I was able to ask him and his wife a question:

How does your group (I can't remember his group's name) feel about using birth control and education to reduce the need for abortion? They gave me the evil eye, then railed against the selfishness of birth control, the "pre-marital sex attitude" that allowed "lesbian love" and "those gays" to participate in a public life. Birth control, he said, was abortion in itself! I guess one could technically make this point, but isn't education and preventative medicine better than the abortive procedure? Especially for those of us who are going to be having sex?

Ah, I don't know. I'll leave your comment alone becaus it looks like I'm turning this into my own personal blog.

Thanks for continuing the discussion.

And I'm terribly sorry about the typos. I officially suck. Email me if you can't read what I've written.

Lauren,

I enjoy reading your thoughts and feelings on this topic. I understand your view..and I disagree, but that's ok.

I had this view long before I became a Christian, it's just something in my gut that I have known since I was a teenager. It is all about rights for me also...just the rights of someone who can not yet speak.

On the whole educational piece...it's a double edged sword. Educating on contraceptives will prevent pregnancies, but then again...it's giving validation "I know you are going to do this, so prepare." Like giving a teenager a car that goes 150mph and telling them to only drive 50. Yeah right.

Regarding birth control, it depends on the method used. Birth control pills can either suppress ovulation or make the endometrium a hostile environment for the baby (embryo). I believe life begins at conception...so birth control pills can actually cause abortion. I think this little bit of info has been suppressed effectively.

I respect your opinions...I just had to respond to your post on Life Chain. I still think you are looking at the whole pro-life political issue and missing what Life Chain is actually about.